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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Topic: MG Crawler
    Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 9:15am
This is our latest project.

We think it is an MG5 but not too sure.
The tracks/wheels are siezed soild at the moment so we need to free them off to take it off the trailer. It was loaded by a very large forklift/digger when we picked it up.
Phil
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 9:27am
The engine turns over freely but no compression.
 
After removing the head we found the exhaust valve was stuck open.
 
After freeing the valve off we found that it wasn't seating properly. We ground the valve in and reassembled.
 
The magneto was cleaned and still produces a good spark.
Phil
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Dieselhead
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Quote Dieselhead Replybullet Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 6:16pm
Hi Phil.
 
Yes its an MG5. Did I see that on crawler bay??
Chris. I aint getting on no plane. Fool!
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series1gem
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Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 13 Aug 2010 at 7:00pm
just a point when grinding in valves you should osilate the valve rather than continously in the same direction.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 14 Aug 2010 at 4:21pm

Hi Chris, Thanks for confirming that it is an MG5. It was purchased on the auction site you mentioned.

Hi Series1Gem, Thanks for the info on valve grinding. I leave all that to my dad (in the picture). The valve now seats as it should but the piston rings are seized.

Are piston rings still available for this engine?

Phil
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series1gem
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Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 14 Aug 2010 at 4:29pm
theres a firm that advertise in the stationary engine magazine that say they can match allmost any ring, if they are only siezed in the piston then soak in diesel/ freeing oil for a few weeks then see if you can carefully lever them out with something like a precession screwdriver etc. maybe apply a gentle bit of heat, not to much though, ive often freed rings up and then reused them, doesnt work every time though.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 14 Aug 2010 at 6:07pm
Thanks Series1gem,
We were planning on freeing the existing ones off but having tried this in the past on a JAP55 engine we managed to break one. I just wanted to make sure that replacements were available just in case.
Phil
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Dieselhead
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Quote Dieselhead Replybullet Posted: 14 Aug 2010 at 10:33pm
Hi Phil, 
 
To free the rings, try boiling the piston in hot water for a while. This should heat the piston & expand it a bit & they may free off.
 
Worth a try??
Chris. I aint getting on no plane. Fool!
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Charlie
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Quote Charlie Replybullet Posted: 15 Aug 2010 at 9:53am
I have freed rings before by carefully scrapping between ring and piston with a thin feeler gauge.
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mowersman
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Quote mowersman Replybullet Posted: 16 Aug 2010 at 12:52am
Try Cox and Turners for rings, excellent, they keep a huge stock of rings
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 16 Aug 2010 at 8:12am
Thanks for all the advice. We have now managed to free the rings off and we have had the engine running. More progress to come shortly....
Phil
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 20 Aug 2010 at 3:38pm

We have now started to free off the various gear levers on the MG5 and we have also taken off the top cover from the gearbox.

As you can see from the photo it has become filled with water over the years but everything is free and moving ok. One of the brake band boxes has also become full of water.
We are planning on adding drain plugs to the brake band boxes so that they can be drained again if needed.
The PTO lever has also been freed and works ok.
 
Here are some of the parts that have been removed ready for cleaning and painting.
Phil
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MGmagic
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Quote MGmagic Replybullet Posted: 20 Aug 2010 at 6:11pm
While you're in there, check the crownwheel outside edge(right hand in my case) for the year of manufacturer. I am at a similar stage with a 1954 MG5.
Is that the fuel line running throught the LH brake enclousure?
A few Ransomes MGs...
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ransomesmg6
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Quote ransomesmg6 Replybullet Posted: 20 Aug 2010 at 8:39pm
Also when you put it back together put a seal on/ between the tub above the gear box and between the tub and the peice of metal the brake lever is bolted on. Hope you understand as this will stop water running down the side of the metal the brake lever is bolted on to and into the gearbox it self like it has!!
Remember!!
Nothing runs like a Deere!!
But..
Nothing trots like a Horse!!
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 20 Aug 2010 at 10:04pm

I shall have a look when we get the gearbox apart for the manufacture date. Thanks for the info MGmagic.

That is the fuel line in the picture running through the LH brake box. Good luck with your MG5 restoration.

Thanks for the advice with the seals ransomesmg6. I will certainly seal everything I can when reassembling the machine.

Phil
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 22 Aug 2010 at 8:41pm
We have drained the gearbox and found the following stamped on one of the gears 3/49.
I am guessing that this means March 1949.
Thanks again for the info MGmagic
Phil
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 02 Sep 2010 at 9:50pm
Not much to report on the progress of the MG5.
We have managed to free off the stuck brake bands and the tracks seem to all move.
Phil
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 2:57pm
We have now removed the engine from the MG5 and also aquired a manual for the machine.
 
After cleaning up the plate that the engine sits on we have discovered that it has cracked both sides where the mounting bolts go.
 
Here I have circled the cracked areas on the metal plate.
 
We will have to angle grind a groove all the way along the cracks and weld them back together.
 
Is this a common problem with MG crawlers? Has anyone else come across this?
Phil
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 3:07pm
As the picture is not that clear I have drawn a top down sketch of the area showing the bolt holes and the drain hole.
The red lines are the cracks in the metal plate. The front bolt holes are supported by angle brackets under the plate but the back ones are not.
Phil
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Dieselhead
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Quote Dieselhead Replybullet Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 7:22pm
Never come across a cracked chassis on an MG before. Maybe the engine had become loose at some stage thus weekening the metal??
Chris. I aint getting on no plane. Fool!
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 10:48pm
It was only when we removed the shims welded to the chassis plate that we noticed the cracks. They are normally covered by the shims and would not normally be taken off. Our chassis plate is so rusty and pitted that we decided to remove the shims to smooth the plate with filler. Couldn't believe it at first because it is a thick plate. The cracks are quite severe and you can move the middle section up and down slightly by hand.
 
Thanks for the reply Chris, We also thought that this could have been due to a loose engine at some point and the rattling of the engine fretting the metal chassis plate.
So it would appear that this is an isolated case and not a common issue.Cry
Phil
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lawnmowerboy
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Quote lawnmowerboy Replybullet Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 7:32am
is the plate steel or cast iron either way it could be welded
Grow old, not up!!!
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 13 Sep 2010 at 8:07am
It's quite thick steel plate. We are planning on angle grinding a groove all the way down the cracks and welding them back together. then we can weld the shims back on top.
We may also add a second set of support brackets to the rear mounting holes.
Phil
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vintagetractorm
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Quote vintagetractorm Replybullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 10:38pm
HI i had a seized up bolt on my plough even with the plough on the back of my tractor and a very long bar, the bolt wouldnt move. So i removed the entire bracket and got a old plastic container i.e. washing up bowl or an old lunch box and placed the bracket in a got some coca cola from the shop and poured enough in the tub to cover the bracket. Left it a week and went back to it placed it in the vice and it unscrewed with just a spanner. The coke idea sounds daft iknow but it realy works. Your piston rings may requir soaking a bit longer in coke but its worth a try.
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lawnmowerboy
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Quote lawnmowerboy Replybullet Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 6:47pm
thanks will have to give it a try


for thin and delicate bolts do i use diet coke!!!!!
lol
Grow old, not up!!!
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leonnidees
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Quote leonnidees Replybullet Posted: 09 Nov 2010 at 10:11am
Good luck with your restos, one and all!  The first picture of your MG5 looks so much like mine that I had to look twice LOL.   There should be a brass plate rivetted to the rear bulkhead - looks as if there's one, hidden by the floating tool-bar - that will have the type and serial number stamped on it.

When I work out how to post pics, I'll start a new thread.  Needless to say, my MG5's now running again after about 8 years' "storage" - the previous owner said it was a runner but he wasn't being entirely truthful - no compression due to burnt-out valve seats.  Had them re-cut and lapped, fitted all new gaskets, new plug, reset the points, cleaned out the tank, fuel lines and carb, filled engine and air filter with oil, a bit of oil in the bore ...... started first time Clap with lots of black smoke and stuff out of the exhaust!  Many thanks to Neil Jarrett for parts and advice.  Now to check the final drives, oil the rollers and get it moving under its own steam.  As I also have a working MG6, I'm planning to advertise the MG5 on here - so you can all have first dibs - before resorting to the bay of e.  It is still very much a project - needs a good clean-up and complete re-finish - but it runs!
David.
West Dorset - Ransomes MG6 (and a few old Saabs!)
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Charlie
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Quote Charlie Replybullet Posted: 09 Nov 2010 at 5:12pm
See Help and Information section regarding posting photos.
It would be better to advertise in The Cultivator as all VHGMC members would see it not just those that use he forum. Next issue will be Feb 2011.
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leonnidees
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Quote leonnidees Replybullet Posted: 10 Nov 2010 at 8:47pm
Okay - have read the bit about adding photos and will get some re-sized for a new MG5 topic in the Projects forum.

Thanks for the tip about advertising in The Cultivator - if I can wait that long.  Need the space in my garage/workshop (for another old Saab that's arriving soon).
David.
West Dorset - Ransomes MG6 (and a few old Saabs!)
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Quote trosher123 Replybullet Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 8:35am
nice project there looking fored to seeing the finished result
the futcher is orange
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ransomesmg6
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Quote ransomesmg6 Replybullet Posted: 09 Dec 2010 at 8:18pm
Any more progress Ritual on this little beast?
Remember!!
Nothing runs like a Deere!!
But..
Nothing trots like a Horse!!
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 11 Dec 2010 at 12:17pm
Have been a bit busy recently, so no progress on the crawler.
I will get going on it again soon and continue with updates.
Phil
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 11 Sep 2011 at 5:33pm
We have finally got back to work on the MG5.
 
Here are grooves ready to be welded in the metal plate over the cracks.
 
Welded up grooves repairing the cracks.
Phil
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 11 Sep 2011 at 5:49pm
The engine mounting plates / shims were so rusty we have made new ones the correct thickness.
 
New plates marked out using the originals as templates.
 
 
Phil
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 11 Sep 2011 at 6:08pm
New plate ready to be welded on
Phil
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Ritual
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Quote Ritual Replybullet Posted: 20 Oct 2011 at 11:31am
Tracks and gearbox removed.
 
PTO being removed.
 
PTO in parts ready to be rubbed down and painted.
Phil
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