Established 1993. The only club dedicated to all types of vintage garden tools and machinery

 
.....Find the NEW website and machinery forums at www.vhgmc.co.uk
 
  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
Projects
 VHGMC ForumsThe Main Forum AreaProjects
Message Icon Topic: Series 1 Rotary Hoes Gem Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 11 Next >>
Author Message
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Topic: Series 1 Rotary Hoes Gem
    Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 6:14pm
My new project arrived today. A series 1 Rotary Hoe, Gem, Number G1384.
This one is mine and will be receiving the same treatment as the previous series 2.
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 6:22pm
Looks a very sound starting point.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 6:53pm
Its a Non runner with a suspected stuck valve, However, After removing the head and valve chamber the valves and piston are in amazing condition. Not seized in any way with hardly any wear, but compression seemed low? and it turned over far too easy?
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 7:01pm
Head gasket trouble perhaps?
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 7:16pm
There are some issues though, A broken Chain case, came with a replacement. A heath robinson affair for an exhaust, a broken cleat to the right wheel, rotten rotor covers and some bent metal framing. Thats what I found today at least. Here are a few more pictures.
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 7:20pm
Could be head gasket, I think the head has been off recently as the piston has no carbon on it whatsoever. The gasket I removed also had the remains of sealer of some description on, which makes me suspect its been apart not too long ago, and they didnt replace the head gasket when reassembled.
 Where is the best place for British Junior Engine gaskets? I got the last ones from Mr C? Quite expensive from memory?
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 7:53pm
I dont know of any other source, than mr c, but i was recently given a brandnew copper gasket to go on top of the cylinder block still in the original howard packaging that i'm going to use on my series2.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 8:17pm
Mr C it is then! Both the copper 'o' ring gasket and the cylinder head gaskets are flat. I would think they have been re-used several times and are no longer creating a seal. The valves have no pitting and seat tightly, but I will regrind them as a precaution. The Piston is tight in the bore with minimal movement, may remove it to check the rings. But usually broken rings score the bore. There are no marks at all nor any lip to indicate any significant wear.
I havent cleaned anything here, Its as it came off.
IP IP Logged
john webster
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 254
Quote john webster Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 8:24pm
what a good project.this will keep you amused for a week or two.i hope it does not take as long as my simar project because it must have been the worst thing to attempt as the first removation. its been a total rebuild from wheels to rota guard and engine,and i can say with all honesty its taken me 19 months so far
simars till the world now ive got mine mobile !!
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 8:26pm
Got to admire 19months dedication! Respect!
The series 2 Ive just finished took just over 4 months, It seemed like forever though...
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 8:30pm
I allways find its the little finishing off details that take the most time
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 8:32pm
Or the waiting for parts!
IP IP Logged
howardman
Forum Member
Forum Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 292
Quote howardman Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 8:36pm
grt to see another well photographed howard gem project underway...not good for taking photos  myself.......but they add so much to the projects/posts/forum
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 8:42pm
Thanks, I always take lots of photo's. It helps when it comes to re-assembly, Describing a particular problem and often useful for ordering parts. They also show some quite unbelievable things, like the home made exhaust that was fitted to this machine earlier in the post.
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 8:50pm
Can anybody date this machine for me please. This one is going to be with me for some time and I would like to get as much history as I can for it.
Here are some more photo's.
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 8:53pm
I know number G367 (which is my earliest example ) was made in sept 1942, try a pm to hortiman and he can probably date it to the year for you.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 10 Jan 2011 at 9:03pm
PM sent, Thanks for that!
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Darmic1

Its a Non runner with a suspected stuck valve, However, After removing the head and valve chamber the valves and piston are in amazing condition. Not seized in any way with hardly any wear, but compression seemed low? and it turned over far too easy?
check the tappet clearances and that the decompressor isnt holding the valve fractionly open.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 6:37pm
Have had a look at the cylinder head today, This could be the problem. There is a lot of corrosion to the cooling fins, and in general to the exposed cylinder head. (Part not covered by the cowling.) Resulting in a lot of missing metal both around the spark plug area and the front part of cylinder head. Could mean there is insufficient surface area to create a good seal. If any one has a spare cylinder head? PM me please?
Here is a photo....Could also be the screw which goes into the cylinder head, there is a lot of oil around this area. What would this screw be used for?
IP IP Logged
mowersman
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2817
Quote mowersman Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 6:39pm
I've seen some bad ones but never as bad as that, what plug does it take, long or short reach
The more I work with petrols, the more I like diesels...
Yeovil, Somerset
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 6:40pm
It has a Champion D16
IP IP Logged
mowersman
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2817
Quote mowersman Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 6:52pm
I would certainly be looking for another head if I were you, unles you can get it milled very slightly to get a good sealing surface
The more I work with petrols, the more I like diesels...
Yeovil, Somerset
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 7:11pm
I think some of the strength would have gone out of this with all the corrosion. I also wonder about the cooling now as most of the front cooling fins are all but gone.
Im kinda hoping somebody here may have a spare one in reasonable condition, who could be pursuaded to exchange it for some folded paper Wink!
Failing that the list of parts from Mr C will be getting a little longer.....and more expensive.
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 7:29pm
Ive just had a look through my store and unfourtunatley the only spare ive got is also in very poor condition.sorry.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 7:34pm
Thanks for looking!, I think most of the early ones are now in this condition, they are now at least 65 years old. If it hasnt been dry stored all its life or been replaced at some point then I guess most will be the same. I will give Mr C a call tomorrow.....
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 7:36pm
Would it be the sort of thing you could get cast? I had some weights cast for a wacker years ago, wasnt that expensive, but unfourtunatly the old boy who ran the place has died so they shut up shop.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 7:47pm
We dont have any sort of heavy industry around here, the last machine shop shut down and moved away last year. I think I will have get a good second hand one.
IP IP Logged
the pig
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 24
Quote the pig Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 8:07pm
Pig Hi mate looks like you have a lot to do to make it as good as the one you did for me as it runs like a clockwork orange ,Approvedont rush it and take your time i'm sure it will be a supper job when compleated as the last one is.Big%20smile
eddie the howard lover
IP IP Logged
enginear
Forum Member
Forum Member


Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 626
Quote enginear Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 8:11pm
Hi Darmic1 with any engine if you think the compression is low it's worth checking the cyl head to see if it's warped this can be done using a straight edge or a good quality steel rule and feeler's if it requires attention see if you can get an old trctor cab lower front or side window which is flat then use a sheet of emery and face off the head,the best thing for doing job's like this is to get a piece of steel about 35-40mm thick and have it milled flat and keep in a wooden box well oiled it will last for years not a cheap thing to do and if you can get another head that's better, then this would be a first choice.   
simple
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 8:15pm
Just going through everything to see what parts it needs. Seems it wasnt a stuck valve after all causing the non start. Could be cylinder head, head gasket or as s1g suggested the valve lifter or tappet clearance. Will have to work through all suspects, have already ruled out piston, rings and valves. So just the others to check now. Going to call Mr C tomorrow to get prices for gaskets and see if he has cylinder head.
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 11 Jan 2011 at 8:19pm
Enginear, thanks for the tip, think im going to order up a good second hand if I can. I may well be able to reface the head, but I think there is too much corrosion. As you said It could be warped, maybe because the metal is overheating as its lost so much cooling area?
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 7:29pm

All was going so well...... got the valves, springs and colletts out of the valve chamber, cleaned them. Took the barrel off the engine, cleaned that and inspected the lining, small amount of wear only to be expected with its age and definately not serious. Took the rings off the piston to clean and inspect them, top 3 fine.... the 4th, lower oil control ring snapped on removal... doh!!!

 
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 7:36pm
It gets worse.... After that little set back I decided to clean up the valve chamber ready for reassembling the valves etc. When the Phone rang, switched off the bench grinder with the wire wheel on, put the valve chamber on the parts washer lid and walked away to answer the phone... CRASH... The vibration of the wheel slowing down caused the valve chamber to fall off the lid onto the concrete floor and now has a lovely crack in it!
IP IP Logged
Darmic1
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 531
Quote Darmic1 Replybullet Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 7:49pm
Any one know if its viable to get this welded?
IP IP Logged
mowersman
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2817
Quote mowersman Replybullet Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 8:15pm

Depends on what you would consider to be viable. To get it profesionally plasma welded will set you back an awful lot of money, I was quoted 275 to repair my Trusty drawbar bracket. You might be able to find a small workshop or private individual who is COMPETANT at cast welding. Then it would need to be Vee'd out, heated to a high temperature and welded, a little bit at a time. Then it needs to be left to cool for a long time. The profesional companies leave it in a slowly cooling oven for about a day, though under a large pile of ashes is ok aparently. It would then need to be machined flat and the whole head checked for distorsion (quite lightly). I would say that if you can find a replacement, do, but if not then go for it, there is nothing to loose.

BTW I have never tried this, All was learned when I was researching how to repair the draw bar bracket on my trusty.
Andrew
The more I work with petrols, the more I like diesels...
Yeovil, Somerset
IP IP Logged
Page  of 11 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.188 seconds.