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SamMorley
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Quote SamMorley Replybullet Topic: Howard Clifford Demon with Villiers engine
    Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 2:32pm
Hello, I brought a Howard Demon rotovator recently as a non runner and am looking for info and advice on how to tackle getting it up and running. It has a Villiers engine on it. i was told that it was working last year, it certainly looks well looked after but has now stopped producing a spark - the origional spark plug is long gone and the new one does not fit. with a bit of know how i recon i can get this up and running, but i have no know how and cant find any info on this perticular model and engine.
 
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mowersman
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Quote mowersman Replybullet Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 2:42pm
Could you take a pic of it, I suspect its a Mk12...
As for the plug, is the current one too big or too small?
Do you have a multimeter?
Andrew
The more I work with petrols, the more I like diesels...
Yeovil, Somerset
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SamMorley
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Quote SamMorley Replybullet Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 3:00pm
The spark plug is so big you can get it into position to screw in!
 i think the last owner just tried any old plug!
 
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mowersman
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Quote mowersman Replybullet Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 5:40pm
Yup a Villiers MK12 or it could Be a Mk10, makes no difference either way. I'm pretty certain it should have a 14mm plug, thought it may have had an earlier head fitted. Is the plug too big in diameter or too long or both!!! If it is too big in diameter, go onto Ebbayy and buy a champion J19LM, NOT a champion RJ19LM. It is a pretty good all round plug and should fit, should only set you back a couple of quid.
The more I work with petrols, the more I like diesels...
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series1gem
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Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 6:00pm
Hi what youve actually got is an early howard 200, the demon was fitted with a 120cc bsa engine and the platform it sits on would of tilted the other way.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
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series1gem
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Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 6:19pm

see my website for more info on them www.howardgem.webs.com

If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
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SamMorley
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Quote SamMorley Replybullet Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 9:22am
thanks both for the info, all a bit confusing, 200? Demon? i take it the Demon is a newer name for the 200?? restoration starts this weekend - have sourced a man who sells parts, will be back for some advice though!youtube seems to be fairly handy for info on the Villiers engines?
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will_haggle
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Quote will_haggle Replybullet Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 10:19am
That one must have been made the same time as my Bullfinch, they only used the Howard-Clifford name for a couple of years. My Bullfinch is 1958 by the engine no. The Demon was before the 200 and after the Bullfinch.....
6 months ago I couldn't even spell engineer - now I are one
Calne, North Wiltshire...
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SamMorley
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Quote SamMorley Replybullet Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 10:42am
All a bit confusing - know of a book with all this in it? would like to try and find the exact age of the machine i've got.
I'm thinking now that i might have a 200 with a Demon fuel tank on it?? anyone know how i could check this?
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will_haggle
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Quote will_haggle Replybullet Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 10:57am
You need 70 Years of Gardening Machinery by Brian Bell, published by Old Pond publishing........
6 months ago I couldn't even spell engineer - now I are one
Calne, North Wiltshire...
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SamMorley
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Quote SamMorley Replybullet Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 11:27am
Thanks, will see if the Library can get hold of a copy.
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series1gem
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Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 5:46pm
Hi first came the bulldog with a jap 2a in 1954. Less than 12mths later after legal action from Lanz (the tractor manufacturer) the name was changed for Bullfinch.
Around 1956 The Demon was offered with a 120cc Bsa engine, apart from the engine both were identical and for a while you could have either.
In 1961 the 200 was introduced initaly with a Villiers mk10/1 this was quickly replaced with a Villiers mk 12/1 then afterwards a Villiers mk 12/2. The engine platform tilted the other way to allow the operating rod to clear the carb.
1966ish the range was facelifted with more chunkier tyres and a belt safety guard and on off switch.
In 1972 the 220 was launched with an aspera htb 35 engine, and swinging handle bars. The range was discontinued in 1978.
Studying your pictures i think youve got an early type 200, with a tank of a bsa from a demon, (both taanks are identical) which would explain the demon decal.
Assuming the rotorcover is original you will find 200 on the brass badge at the rear of it. Hope this helps.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
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series1gem
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Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 15 Mar 2011 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by will_haggle

You need 70 Years of Gardening Machinery by Brian Bell, published by Old Pond publishing........
Ignore some of the dates brain bell mentions as after checking the factory records he is quite out on some of the dates. If you look on the out side edge of the flywheel you will see a date stamped in it.This is when the engine was built so solong as its original will give you a good guide to the year.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
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SamMorley
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Quote SamMorley Replybullet Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 8:41am
Howard 200 it is then, excellent! spark plug arrives tomorrow!
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series1gem
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Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 16 Mar 2011 at 6:02pm
With these villiers one of the most important things to do after getting a spark is to regrind the valves.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
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SamMorley
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Quote SamMorley Replybullet Posted: 17 Mar 2011 at 9:27am
ok thanks
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will_haggle
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Quote will_haggle Replybullet Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 12:44pm
I picked this one up yesterday, it's my third Howard and my first BSA engined one. It is a Demon and it came with a load of BSA spares. I'm going to clean it up, get it going and replace the tyres, if I can find some suitable cam belts.






6 months ago I couldn't even spell engineer - now I are one
Calne, North Wiltshire...
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series1gem
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Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 9:51pm
Just a minor detail but its also missing the air filter elbow to put the filter the right way up. Looks a very good machine though.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
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will_haggle
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Quote will_haggle Replybullet Posted: 27 Nov 2011 at 11:37pm
Ahh! that's why the previous owner put a bracket on to stop it falling off.....
It's got a really full history, about the only machine I've got where I know the first owner.....
6 months ago I couldn't even spell engineer - now I are one
Calne, North Wiltshire...
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will_haggle
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Quote will_haggle Replybullet Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 2:35pm
So far.....
Checked for spark, Loads of sparks
Checked fuel, gone off, tap blocked so I've cleaned it out and the pipe, tank to be cleaned out before attempting to start.
Oil not yet checked, however previous owner use a special moly-type oil in the gearbox, I'll have to ask him what it is and see if I can get a supply, it might be good for the Bantam and the Bullfinch....
So far, so good.....
6 months ago I couldn't even spell engineer - now I are one
Calne, North Wiltshire...
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series1gem
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Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 7:28am
A firm that i purchase my oil from make moly slip for the company, they arent allowed to sell it to anyone else, however do "their own version" if you know what i mean; if you remind me i can bring you some to tractor world if youre going to be there on sat morning. Only about 6 a tin. I use the engine version in all my vechicles scince years ago when we got nearly half a million miles out of an old renault savanna and then sold it for the engine! Its good stuff!
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
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will_haggle
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Quote will_haggle Replybullet Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 11:43am
I'll be at Tractor World, anyway, whether I enter or not.....
6 months ago I couldn't even spell engineer - now I are one
Calne, North Wiltshire...
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will_haggle
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Quote will_haggle Replybullet Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 11:03pm
I had a go at it on Saturday, it fires juice put down the plug 'ole, but I have to clean the carb. out as no petrol gets through.....
6 months ago I couldn't even spell engineer - now I are one
Calne, North Wiltshire...
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series1gem
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Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 27 Dec 2011 at 12:50pm
Youre quite likely to find that if it doesnt draw petrol through then the exhaust (and maybe inlet) valve requires grinding in. The amal carb fitted normally only gives trouble with either a holed float and/or  the inlet needle seat, so petrol poors out every where.
 Coils can give trouble, but if youve got a spark on yours leave well alone as the tend to go on for ever if working after being stood.
 
Somewhere if youre in no rush ive got a copy of the bsa engine book and will happily send you a photocopy, you'll see when working on them how over enginered they are compared to the villiers or japs of the era.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
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