Established 1993. The only club dedicated to all types of vintage garden tools and machinery

 
.....Find the NEW website and machinery forums at www.vhgmc.co.uk
 
  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
General talk and discussion
 VHGMC ForumsThe Main Forum AreaGeneral talk and discussion
Message Icon Topic: Which Howard? Post Reply Post New Topic
Author Message
Flatcat
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 305
Quote Flatcat Replybullet Topic: Which Howard?
    Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 11:39am
I'm in despirate need for a working rotavator now, and decided that a 400/700/Gem are too big for my needs.
 
So it's either a 200, 350, or a Bantam.
 
Which would anyone recommend out of these three?
 
It wouldn't have to do any real heavy work, just lots and lots of turning over of fairly soft soil, to create a nice tilth.
 
I am drawn to the 300/350, as it has chunky tires, and less likely to sink in my softish ground, but what would you recommend?
 
Damon
IP IP Logged
Martinh
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 212
Quote Martinh Replybullet Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 12:40pm
Damon

All are good machines   Watch for knackered clutches on  300/ 350  machines with  cone clutches  The 300/350 are not exactly light either at 125 Kgs  Watch out too when using reverse gear  when manoevering.   Find a good one, probably through the club  and   be aware of what you need  I use a 350  on my allotment and  that does get a good tilth even on my clay soil, though it may take a couple of passes ,
Martin. The Village Idiot
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 1:31pm
A 350 is the most powerfull of the options, as allready said the cone clutches can give a lot of trouble, but parts to rebuild the clutch are readily avaliable on ebay. One allternative can be to fit an ideler wheel system similar to a merrytiller and the later 352 howards or also you could fit a centifugal clutch.
When looking at a potential purchase check the machine doesnt jump out of gear, this can be an expensive common fault often caused by the machine running with a siezed clutch. Also bare in mind they have a high center of gravity so are easy to topple both in use and transportation. If this doesnt put you off I have a machine for sale that ive got half way through a rebuild and havent had time to finish but it wont be cheap i'm affraid as its cost a lot so far.
Of the smaller machines the bantam is the nicest to use, being the little bit heavier, if you buy an example with the view to fitting a later engine then go for one with either the BSA engine(extremley rare option) or the Mk 15 villiers engine as both of these are easier to convert than the mk 25c villiers or Ac 120 engine. The bigest weekspot is the wheel berrings, check very carefully before purchase as this is a very common fault that is expensive and/or time consumming to rectify, youd be better off finding another Bantam as theres loads about.
The 200 range etc is very good for a small machine, they do have a tendency to bounce if hitting a stone etc but will produce a nice tilth.
The 220 should be avoided if its got the original Aspera HTB 35 engine on it as these were awfull engines even when new, and time hasnt been kind to them.
The 200 has the Villiers mk 12 engine (allthough some early examples had a mk 10), these are very caple engines that once properly serviced should start first pull from cold but as with all old engines can take a few more pulls when warm due to the ignitions breaking down under temperature.
The Demon has an over enginered bsa 120 cc engine, if running well definatley consider, and allthougth good at turning over light soil the Bulldog/bullfinch can be a tad under powered. All this range though can suffer from the center drive shaft sheering, the rotors will still turn but the wheels wont,walk away if you come across this issue. Hope this is not to long winded for you. I can also supply copies of brochures for the above machines at cost price(around 3ish) if its any help to you or anyone else.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
Flatcat
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 305
Quote Flatcat Replybullet Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 1:46pm
Thanks for this, guys - sounds like they all have they're niggly bits
 
Is there any difference in size between the bantam and 350?
 
I need it to be as short as possible, and the bantam looks monger than the 350, but I can't tell about width. I have a few awkward bits down at the allotment where size will matter.
 
I pressume the 200 is the smallest?
 
BTW, thanks for the offer, series1gem. I have around 250-300 to spend, but I think it may be a bit too challenging for my knowledge!
 
Damon
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 2:03pm
The 200 in standard is 10" and so is the bantam, but the bantam could also be had in 14" form as well but this is a very rare option. (Extensions could also be had for the 200).The 350 as standard is 18" and i think it was about 23" offered as an option, i'll have to dig my books out and check, all are going to be a similar length, the 200 range is the smallest.
If youve got that budget then i personally would try and find a good bantam, a nice up together machine should cost about 100-200 tops, allthougth a good 200 range machine should also be considered, again the price range will be about the same.
My 350 when fully finished will probably fetch 450 ish, maybe quite a bit more in the spring. The 350 does have a reverse gear which the others dont but they are so light this is not an issue really. I know it sounds like a lot of problems but the age of these machines has to be considered, most bantams are 50 + years old and even the newest 350 is knocking on 30 years.Just avoid that horrible aspera engine and look out for the points ive mentioned and you should have a machine that will out last you if properly looked after.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
Flatcat
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 305
Quote Flatcat Replybullet Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 3:32pm
Thanks, S1G
 
I still like the 350 over the bantam, and the fact that you can attach a trailer wins it for me.
 
This top heavy thing, is it a real issue? Because we have a severe side sloping hill to get up to the shed which could pose a big problem.
 
Damon
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 5:24pm
Years back my dad was transporting one in a trailer and it overturned on a corner, breaking the end off the crankshaft and countless other damamage. on normal ground its not to much of a problem, when driving it back to the shed so long as you use common sense then you should be fine.
A good 350 will often fetch upwards of 400, so will set you back nearly double unless you are really lucky. Take a look at my website under photos for images(allthougth it shows a 300 bar the engine the rest of the machine is identical.) www.howardgem.webs.com
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
roatavator
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 773
Quote roatavator Replybullet Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 6:06pm
Just to add my twopennorth.
200 quite small, absolutely agree with S1G about Aspera, we had one years ago that was nothing but trouble and wore out in 3 years or less.
350/352 much beefier machine, ready to do good days work. We always used 200 series for between narrow row work on soft land. They were good for weeding in between narrow rows of plants, but not much cop for anything else.

350/352 will till to much greater depth with relative ease and produces a lovely tilth. I would have thought it was a much better all round alternative if you're only going to have the one machine. You'll need to set the rows a bit further apart though!
Simars rule OK
IP IP Logged
Flatcat
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 305
Quote Flatcat Replybullet Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 7:40pm
Ok, I think I've made my mind up and I will get a 300/350 I think. The Bantam excells in that it can have many attachments (Although I understand these are rare) but the meatier the better, so I will go for the 350.
 
Thanks for your advice everyone - I will try and view one if possible, so I can have a good inspection and a try before I buySmile
 
Damon
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 8:44pm
There is also a great deal of attachments avaliable for the 300/350,(ive got some brochures on them somewhere) these dont turn up very often, however a lot of the attachments for the bantam are quite common. Definatley try before you buy with the 350 as repairs can get very expensive, but get a good un and you wont stop smilling!
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
Flatcat
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 305
Quote Flatcat Replybullet Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 9:43pm
That's interesting, I've only ever seen a trailer attachment for the 350
 
Damon
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 24 Jul 2011 at 9:55pm

Most Howards had attachments avaliable for them, for the 350 you could get a plough, trailer,mower,hedge trimmer, furrower,saw bench,water pump,toolbar, wider rear end, wheel weights and front weight. I was offered earlier in the year a 300 with a fair few of the attachments, but the chap wanted too much money for them all. Dont ever see many apart from the odd pump and plough on ebay.

If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
plonker
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 528
Quote plonker Replybullet Posted: 26 Jul 2011 at 9:51pm
Very interesting information, does anyone have any opinions on the Yeoman Model? I saw one the other day that is now on the auction site, it is fitted with the BSA engine. anything to watch out for on this model?
plonker
IP IP Logged
slim reaper
Forum Member
Forum Member


Joined: 30 May 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13
Quote slim reaper Replybullet Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 9:21am
Originally posted by plonker

Very interesting information, does anyone have any opinions on the Yeoman Model? I saw one the other day that is now on the auction site, it is fitted with the BSA engine. anything to watch out for on this model?

I have a working Yeoman with Mk40 engine and one with smaller villiers for spares,it's a real animal and will churn up virgin ground with ease.the downside is the weight at around 400lbs and turning in confind spaces.
I bought a sparkless howard 350 last week,converted it to electronic ignition and although the clutch is slipping a little  is far easier to to use and is less top heavy on soft or uneven ground.
I am so impressed with it that  I can no longer justify the space the Yeoman's take up so will be on their way!! so its a 350 in my opinion
slim
IP IP Logged
Reiver
Forum Member
Forum Member


Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 67
Quote Reiver Replybullet Posted: 27 Jul 2011 at 6:32pm
hello i would echo slim reapers comments about the yeoman and 350 for the same reasons. I sold my yeoman after using a 350 in my confined plot.
IP IP Logged
Flatcat
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 305
Quote Flatcat Replybullet Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 9:25am
According to 70YoGM, the 300 only had a 3hp Kohler, and was down on power compared to the 350 which had a 5 something hp, so I guess the 350 is the one to get.
 
Can anyone tell me what the models of these two engines are so I can make sure (as I don't want to end up with the 3HP!
 
Damon
IP IP Logged
hortimech
Forum Member
Forum Member


Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 155
Quote hortimech Replybullet Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 10:31am
Howard used the Kohler K series engines and Kohler never made a 3hp K series engine.
I personal have seen Howard 3*0 machines fitted with K141T, K161T and K181T engines (6.25hp, 7hp and 8hp). They are all virtually identical externally, they only differ on bore and stroke sizes and, if my memory serves me right, sometimes just a different camshaft.
There should be a silver model sticker on the airshroud next to the carb, check this.

 
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 12:18pm
Early 300 's had the 5(sometimes called 6hp) 141 briggs and stratton. This was shortly changed for a kohler k141. In  the late 60's this was uprated to a k161 and called a 350. Ignore the hp rattings as kohler use a different scale compared to briggs etc. In about 1981 the 352 was introduced with a 5hp industrial commerical Briggs, later called the dowdeswell 352 from 1985, with a Kubota/Mag(same engine just rebadged), if you can find one the 352 is the pick of the crop as it uses a lot less complicated ideler wheel clutch system, but they do tend to fetch a lot higher prenimum.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 28 Jul 2011 at 12:21pm
Ignore a lot of what brain bell says about howards as the book contains a lot of errors such as dates and in this case the horse power. If you find a kohler engined 300 i'd be interested by the way.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
breamcatcher
New Member
New Member


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2
Quote breamcatcher Replybullet Posted: 29 Jul 2011 at 11:53am
hi guys.  just bought a howard yeoman ,new clutch been fitted but i need a clutch pushrod does any one know where i can get one  
IP IP Logged
series1gem
Forum Member
Forum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5183
Quote series1gem Replybullet Posted: 30 Jul 2011 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by breamcatcher

hi guys.  just bought a howard yeoman ,new clutch been fitted but i need a clutch pushrod does any one know where i can get one  
Hi, hopefully my telephone call helped, any further queries please dont hesitate to ask. All the best gareth.
If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator
IP IP Logged
breamcatcher
New Member
New Member


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2
Quote breamcatcher Replybullet Posted: 31 Jul 2011 at 6:53am
yea thanks gareth, great to speak with you, ill try to get it sorted on monday 
IP IP Logged
Paulg
New Member
New Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2
Quote Paulg Replybullet Posted: 24 Aug 2011 at 10:14am
At the start of the year I bought  a howard 300 with a 5 hp Briggs and Stratton badly fitted. when I got it the man gave me the engine that came off it, it was a kohler K91 engine with a damaged keyway have you any idea what size this engine is ? as I am sure it could be repaired.
 
Many thanks to this Forum, I got a two stroke bantam at the start of the year with no spark, I worked my way through cleaning the points and setting the timing, third pull it burst into life only trouble was no off switch, any idea which is the best method of turning it off without damaging the coil ?
many thanks Paulg
IP IP Logged
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.070 seconds.