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johnd
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Quote johnd Replybullet Topic: Problem Dismantling Allen Scythe
    Posted: 07 May 2013 at 11:13am
I am new to this sort of stuff, but have bought an Allen Scythe to cut a rough paddock. The scythe has Machine No. R27296, and a Villiers Mk11C 2 stroke engine. I replaced coil, points and condenser, and cleaned mud and grit out of carb and petrol tank and engine started 3rd pull. It runs brilliantly and the blades cut well despite not having touched them. The problem I have is the clutch is not engaging and does not move easily, if at all. I am unable to get to the mechanism as this machine has guards surrounding the axles between wheels and body. There is not room to remove them, despite undoing the fastenings, without removing the wheels. How do I get the wheels off? I have undone the two 9/16W nuts that hold the pawl pivots but wheels remain firmly on. Do they just require a threat with a hammer or is there somethin else holding them? I have found the Allen screws in wheel hubs and undone one, other side needs persuasion, but do I need to pull out the gib key and remove the hubs? If so how, a wedge under the head of the gib key?
Any guidance would be much appreciated.
 
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Dieselhead
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Quote Dieselhead Replybullet Posted: 07 May 2013 at 7:12pm
Yes you do need to remove the key. Good luck with that!!!
 
They can & are a pig to remove if they have been banged in too tight in the past. They only just have to be pinched in there with a bit of copper grease to help when you have to remove them again.
 
The nuts you have undone have not helped you. If do want to remove these pins from the wheels, they unscrew out of the wheels.
 
Have you got the ratchets set up correctly??
 
Sounds like you have a model T. Fitted with forestry guards, you can slide the handel bar up & down to ajust clutch. Held in place by 2 clamps.
 
Where are you in the country??
Chris. I aint getting on no plane. Fool!
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johnd
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Quote johnd Replybullet Posted: 07 May 2013 at 9:43pm
Thanks Chris. I'll try the sliding of the handle bar first, as it might save a difficult job. The ratchets are not set up as they were seized on the screws. Someone has painted the machine at some time and either they are stuck with paint, or maybe just rusted to the holding screws. Currently soaking in penetrating oil and awaiting new springs. Possible when they did the painting they moved the handlebars and they are not back in exactly the same spot.
I am based near Andover, Hants. 
John
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paul
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Quote paul Replybullet Posted: 08 May 2013 at 8:56pm
Hi All
I have just been reading your post and i have much the same problem with my clutch on my ts model. One of the two lugs on the handle bars was broken off, i have welded it on but the toothed lever that locks into the slot on the hand lever keeps popping out and the handle it goes into is very stiff to pull up. I will try moving the handle bar down a bit. Thanks. paul
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Quote johnd Replybullet Posted: 11 May 2013 at 3:02pm
Well I have had a good look at the the clutch mechanism and everything seems to be free except the bridle rod (selector rod) that engages the dog clutch inside the gear case. Although the rod is stuck it does appear to be correctly adjusted so it should move. The handle on the clutch side is not movable without removing a wheel because a crack appears to have been welded and the weld has not been ground down enough to allow it to move through the clamp. Also just above the rear clamp there are two small beads of weld that look as if they may have been put there deliverately to prevent the handle going in any further. The welds are not preventing the clamp coming undone, just accessibility problems, so it looks as if the right wheel has to come off! I should then be able to get at the bridle rod and remove the top cover of the gear case if necessary to investigate if it is jammed internally. I have tried wheeling the machine back and forth in case it was just the dogs not lined up, but it now looks as if removal of the gib key is the only way to get access. I am not looking forward to that. John
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howardhoe
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Quote howardhoe Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2013 at 2:41am
Use a slide hammer, make it fairly hefty and you will have that gib key out in no time. Put a one meter rod up againts the end of the gib head and weld it on, then a short pice of rod either side and weld along the length of the gib key up to the wheel (not onto the wheel!) and an inch or so along the main rod. Then get something heavy (hammer) with a hole in the middle and slide it on the rod, then weld an old nut or something an inch or so from the end of the rod to hit your hammer against. The reason to weld it an inch or so from the end is so you don't knock it off, you will find that out yourself. Then just slide the hammer back and forth against the nut until you get the key out. Recently on an old engine i had to hit the hammer part with the sledge hammer and make it slide that hard to get the gib out. Took me fifteen minutes of hitting to budge it. Then for your wheel you should be able to grind the weld off and re use the key. On an engine best to replace the key as they travel at a lot faster rpm.
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Quote johnd Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2013 at 8:10pm
Thanks for the advice on the sliding hammer arrangement. I have tried a wedge under the key head but it is obvious something better is required. I had thought about making up a puller, but suspect the key is very firmly stuck and the puller would be little more effective than the wedge. The sliding hammer will at least provide a series of shocks, and welding it on in the first place may help. That is the plan I am going to follow.
 
John
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Quote Dieselhead Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2013 at 9:33pm
Worst you will have to do is to cut the hubs off with a grinder & chisel.
 
Think I have some spare if you do. I have done this in the pastShockedLOL
Chris. I aint getting on no plane. Fool!
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cheeky70
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Quote cheeky70 Replybullet Posted: 20 May 2013 at 9:43am
I have Allen scythe R27172 also fitted with 11C Villiers 2-stroke.
I was given this machine after it had lived 15 years under a conifer tree and would like to know its date of manufacture..
Not a geat deal wrong with it except I can't get it started ! I have replaced coil but not looked at the points, condenser etc. Where did you get those from ?
The cylinder was loose and on removal found both piston rings were broken so have new. Is there any way special to replacing the cylinder after rings fitted ?
Is there a gasket needed between cylinder and crankcase ?
Is there a gasket needed for gearbox cover ? None on when cover removed.
Like you I am new to this game and would appreciate your help or from anyone else on the Forum.
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Quote Andy Frost Replybullet Posted: 20 May 2013 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by cheeky70



I have Allen scythe R27172 also fitted with 11C Villiers 2-stroke.
I was given this machine after it had lived 15 years under a conifer tree and would like to know its date of manufacture..
Not a geat deal wrong with it except I can't get it started ! I have replaced coil but not looked at the points, condenser etc. Where did you get those from ?
The cylinder was loose and on removal found both piston rings were broken so have new. Is there any way special to replacing the cylinder after rings fitted ?
Is there a gasket needed between cylinder and crankcase ?
Is there a gasket needed for gearbox cover ? None on when cover removed.
Like you I am new to this game and would appreciate your help or from anyone else on the Forum.


1 Is the coil you have fitted brand new ??

2 Make sure the rings are located on the pegs correctly , and DO NOT twist the cylinder when re-fitting.

3 Yes there should be a gasket between cylinder and crankcase.

Any further problems fire away.

Andy.
Early Villiers Twostroke spares Always Wanted
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cheeky70
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Quote cheeky70 Replybullet Posted: 20 May 2013 at 8:44pm
Thanks Andy,
Yes a brand new coil was fitted - all GBP69.00 of it !! I have not even looked at the points other than check gap. Should I renew complete unit and, if so, from where ?
Got your advice of fitting rings. Is a ring compressor necessary to lower cylinder in place ? There's noi ioo much room.
What thickness of cylinder gasket - 10 thou ?
 
Appreciate your patience.
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howardhoe
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Quote howardhoe Replybullet Posted: 20 May 2013 at 11:54pm
When i did my 11c just used my fingers to squeeze the rings in, bit of wiggling and was easy. Clean your points but do change that condenser! That is normally what goes. It is in the round housing under the points, you can take two nuts of the back of the plate and the whole round assembly comes off. Better still take the four screws out from the whole magneto plate and a couple of bolts off the supports and you can have a lot more room to work.
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cheeky70
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Quote cheeky70 Replybullet Posted: 21 May 2013 at 7:34am
Thanks Howardhoe. That gives me confidence but will be careful of not twisting to ensure the little tits in ring groove do their job.
I can get the complete back plate off easy so will replace the condenser that way. Who supplies new condenser ?
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howardhoe
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Quote howardhoe Replybullet Posted: 21 May 2013 at 8:45am
Well i have always used villiersparts, will come up if you google it. You will need the square type.
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Quote wristpin Replybullet Posted: 21 May 2013 at 9:04am
Originally posted by howardhoe

Well i have always used villiersparts, will come up if you google it. You will need the square type.


Villiers Services are a useful alternative.

http://www.villiersservices.co.uk/

http://villiersservices.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=8_18
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howardhoe
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Quote howardhoe Replybullet Posted: 21 May 2013 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by wristpin

Originally posted by howardhoe

Well i have always used villiersparts, will come up if you google it. You will need the square type.


Villiers Services are a useful alternative.

http://www.villiersservices.co.uk/

http://villiersservices.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=8_18
 
Never heard of them, they seem to have a good range with good prices. Also they sell the good quality stuff, how long have they been around?
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Quote wristpin Replybullet Posted: 21 May 2013 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by howardhoe

Originally posted by wristpin

Originally posted by howardhoe

Well i have always used villiersparts, will come up if you google it. You will need the square type.

Villiers Services are a useful alternative.

http://www.villiersservices.co.uk/

http://villiersservices.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=8_18
 
Never heard of them, they seem to have a good range with good prices. Also they sell the good quality stuff, how long have they been around?


Over 20 years but have mainly pitched at the classic motor bike market but as a result have a good spread of Villiers stuff. Have found them good to deal with but note that their prices are + vat.
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Quote johnd Replybullet Posted: 22 Jun 2013 at 4:00pm
Following advice from Howardhoe I finally got the gib keys out, and have managed to sort out the clutch, so everything is now working, though some adjustment may be needed to get the clutch to release a little easier. The machine is running nicely, but the throttle cable is very rusty and hard to move, so I have bought a replacement. My problem now is that I have been unable to release the end in the carburettor slide. I have removed the circlip spring, and the small screw in the side, expecting the centre to slide down, but although loose it does not slide out. How do I release the old cable to put the new one on?  JohnD
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Allenscytheman
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Quote Allenscytheman Replybullet Posted: 22 Jun 2013 at 7:20pm
The "nipple" on the cable normally comes out of the bottom of the slide. It can be a bit fiddly, especially if the cable is stuck. The cable comes out of the slot in the side of the slide. I usually disconnect the cable at the throttle end and this will give you the necessary slack at the slide end. If your cable is stuck, then you may have to cut it to get the slack to get it out.
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