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Ransomes Marquis MK 2

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Category: The Main Forum Area
Forum Name: Projects
Forum Discription: Restorations and projects
URL: http://www.tractorbox.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6174
Printed Date: 19 Oct 2021 at 7:21am


Topic: Ransomes Marquis MK 2
Posted By: simar kid
Subject: Ransomes Marquis MK 2
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2012 at 4:43pm
 Time to start a long awaited project.decided to have a change from the norm,and introduce some variation to my small collection. Here i have an 18 inch mower,fitted with a Clinton Gem engine,which is a 400 series.these where not produced for long as the later Marquis had the F12 Sloper Engine fitted.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop



Replies:
Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2012 at 4:54pm
 As always we try to get projects under way fairly quickly as you never know whats around the corner,i.e maybe some thing interesting shows itself and off we go again. Today after having a torential down pour,no drought here forum members,have had a partial strip down ready for a steam clean and then a possible shot blast if required. Mowers are a doddle to strip so within just over half an hour we had this assorted heap of parts.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: steve d
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2012 at 8:55pm
hi john now i m dreading doing the ransomes 24 knowing your doing this one as yours will no doubtably be up to the usual standard just means i ll have to up my game   and i know i ll have fun as not stripped one for many years now but looking forward to it none the less   good luck with it mate i will be watching with anticipation and asking how you find the time at the july get together

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colwood register


Posted By: charliesfergy
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2012 at 9:10pm
Hi john one tip to get the cylinder looking really good is to clean and get the metal reasonably smooth and paint with whatever colour then have it ground/sharpened. looks like brand new. ill find a picture of my suffolk i restored somewhere


Posted By: Dieselhead
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2012 at 5:48pm
For you guys restoring mowers who need the cylinders ground I can help out if required.
 
Just brought my 2nd grinding machine which I have yet to collect
 
Also have a shot blast cabinet to clear the rust away 1st
 
Just need to fine tune it all before I post some pis of it all


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Chris. I aint getting on no plane. Fool!


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2012 at 7:08pm
well done for letting us know. when you get set up  pm us. thanks

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2012 at 5:57pm
Have now started the painting,and realy,there is not much there to paint. i have issues with the exhaust silencer,it has rotted the box and end off so with the help of the manual i have made a new replacement and have this to weld on and drill in some holes to let fumes out. the chain guard cover has been in battle with eithher a garden wall or possibly a rockery so that has had to be beaten out and filled all over.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: hortimech
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2012 at 6:33pm
You really shouldn't have painted the top clutch shaft yet. To make it easier to refit the bearing into the clutch flywheel you need to slide the drum down the shaft. This makes it easier to see what you are doing, also it is easier to fit the bearing into the flywheel first and then get the shaft to go back into the bearing, easier said than done. 


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2012 at 7:32pm
thanks for the tip hortimec,this paint which you see is only the first coat so as you say about the bearing alignment,its not a problem paint wise as it will get more yet. while i have you please can you give me the right procedure for setting up the brakes inside the drum.have not quite got a clue as how its done. many thanks john.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: wristpin
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2012 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by hortimech

You really shouldn't have painted the top clutch shaft yet. To make it easier to refit the bearing into the clutch flywheel you need to slide the drum down the shaft. This makes it easier to see what you are doing, also it is easier to fit the bearing into the flywheel first and then get the shaft to go back into the bearing, easier said than done.†



There speaks a man of experience! Another tip - lubricating the rear rollers. If you can get anything through the nipples accessed through the holes in the roller halves use only oil (sae 50) as grease dries out, blocks the nipples and stops the rollers moving freely on the shaft. If the rollers are seized on the shaft take care with how you attempt to free them - they are cast iron, quite fragile and if still obtainable, outrageously expensive!


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2012 at 7:53pm
thank you these mowers are a whole new ball game to me. many thanks again

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: hortimech
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2012 at 9:49pm
By the "brakes inside the drum" I take it you mean the centrifugal clutch shoes, if so, do nothing. The springs hold the shoes in until you rev the engine, the shoes then throw out and grab the inside of the drum. Note of warning: do not run the engine as it is with the shoes on unless they are covered by the drum.
You just need to ensure that the engine ticks over as slow as possible without stopping and then when the throttle is opened, it revs easily without stalling, you do not need to run the engine at full rpm when using this machine (or you will have to run with it!).


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2012 at 8:25pm
ho ho hortimec, you have a good memory about the running saga. i hope that it does not set off a megga argument like last year. Ouch

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: hortimech
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2012 at 8:46pm
I certainly hope not I'm most amused today!

When you come to rebuild the machine, you are going to need a tool to undo the clutch centre to adjust the chains, I will have to find mine, take a photo of it and then post the picture and measurements for you.



Posted By: hortimech
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2012 at 4:32pm


As I promised, here is the picture of the clutch tool, all dimensions are approx, as measured with a tape. I am sure you will get the idea.

main bar 170mm x 25mm x 8mm

length of pins 50mm, first step 25mm, second 15mm, third step 10mm
diameter of pins, first step 15mm, second step 8mm, third step 6mm

distance pins apart 30mm

If you look into the front of the landroll clutch, you will see two holes. The tool goes in there and you turn it to untighten the retaining nut, just undo it enough to allow the clutch to move.
You must first have the machine fully built and the cutters set before adjusting the chains, you move the clutch about to get the best tension on both chains then retighten the clutch. You may find it easier to remove the outer clutch body first ( just undo and remove the the 3 nuts and springs ).


Posted By: daviddale
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2012 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by simar kid

†Time to start a long awaited project.decided to have a change from the norm,and introduce some variation to my small collection. Here i have an 18 inch mower,fitted with a Clinton Gem engine,which is a 400 series.these where not produced for long as the later Marquis had the F12 Sloper Engine fitted.[IMG]http://www.tractorbox.co.uk/forum/uploads/20120421_164312_clinton_engined.jpg" height="600" width="800" />

Well, at last Simar kid, I've had one of those "square" tanks for a long time, I really thought it went on an early Qualcast, or did it? Anyone know for sure? David.

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Regards, David.


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2012 at 8:49pm
hello david. the red square tank is like you say,this was fitted by someone who pre owned this machine. i was surfing the dreaded last year and found an original,which was a shock to the system.even if it had cost me say £ 50 i would have had to pay it because there are not many about.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2012 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by hortimech



As I promised, here is the picture of the clutch tool, all dimensions are approx, as measured with a tape. I am sure you will get the idea.

main bar 170mm x 25mm x 8mm

length of pins 50mm, first step 25mm, second 15mm, third step 10mm
diameter of pins, first step 15mm, second step 8mm, third step 6mm

distance pins apart 30mm

If you look into the front of the landroll clutch, you will see two holes. The tool goes in there and you turn it to untighten the retaining nut, just undo it enough to allow the clutch to move.
You must first have the machine fully built and the cutters set before adjusting the chains, you move the clutch about to get the best tension on both chains then retighten the clutch. You may find it easier to remove the outer clutch body first ( just undo and remove the the 3 nuts and springs ).
  thanks for that very usefull info on the adjustment tool,will have to take measurements to our local engineer and get a price on the making of one.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2012 at 8:54pm
some how my reply to this post has managed to follow on to hortimecs reply with tool diamentions.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: wristpin
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2012 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by simar kid

Originally posted by hortimech

[IMG]uploads/20120427_163353_Tool2.jpg" height="225" width="300" />As I promised, here is the picture of the clutch tool, all dimensions are approx, as measured with a tape. I am sure you will get the idea.main bar 170mm x 25mm x 8mmlength of pins 50mm, first step 25mm, second 15mm, third step 10mmdiameter of pins, first step 15mm, second step 8mm, third step 6mmdistance pins apart 30mmIf you look into the front of the landroll clutch, you will see two holes. The tool goes in there and you turn it to untighten the retaining nut, just undo it enough to allow the clutch to move.You must first have the machine fully built and the cutters set before adjusting the chains, you move the clutch about to get the best tension on both chains then retighten the clutch. You may find it easier to remove the outer clutch body first ( just undo and remove the the 3 nuts and springs ).
† thanks for that very usefull info on the adjustment tool,will have to take measurements to our local engineer and get a price on the making of one.


Posted By: wristpin
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2012 at 9:27pm
The clutch tool is still listed part number LCG1491 £23.77 + vat so unless your local man does it at mates rates it may be better to buy one!
They say you learn something every day - in years of playing with mowers and 30+ doing it as a business I've never seen a Clinton on a Marquis only on a Mercury. I believe that I am right in saying (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that the Sloper was designed specifically for Ransomes. Was told that the specification was for an engine of xHP that would fit into a given cube - hence the sloping cylinder and the wedge shaped fuel tank.


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 7:31am
hi wristpin. strangely enough,yesterday evening i went to a grounds care shop just to have a snoop around and see if there was anything that might interest me for restoration.i came accross a lawn or green spiker with spikes on it like spear heads. the chap who took me around pointed this out to me and he knew what it was but had no knowledge of the engine.i gave him an informative talk on the villiers f12 sloper engine and he was totally amazed that i knew so much,in fact he told me in so many words that i would be of great value to the company. mmm ,looks like there may be a bus mans holiday on the horizon.     going back to the gem engine.......could i possibly then have a rareish piece of kit here ? would be nice to think i had something extra special in my collection.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2012 at 9:53am
Exhaust has now been restored as the manual shows.holes drilled as best as i could with my small hand drill.and now its looking more complete. will be starting on the flywheel cover later but need some photos of graphics so they can be reproduced at the end.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: wristpin
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 1:14am
Any chance of a pic of that spiker/aerator?
The quality of your paint finish looks terrific, is it ordinary machinery enamel or two-pack? All in the preparation no doubt!
In passing I think that you may have the clutch shoes on the wrong way round with the free ends facing the direction of rotation (leading), Pull them off as a pair with the springs still connected and replace them so that the pivot ends lead - I was told that they should be installed that way for a smoother take up.
When "driving" a machine with that centrifugal clutch you can drop the plate clutch at tick over and then accelerate the engine to take up the the drive. When you get the hang of it you need never use the plate clutch other than when emptying the box or parking.
Your "small hand drill" looks an interesting bit of kit.


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 7:44am
hello wrist pin.the paint which i am useing is a polyester based brushing enamel. a local company in Ripon makes this and many other fine paints and varnishes. i was told that the paint which i use was developed for mainly trains and commercial vehicles. it has a high gloss finish and can withstand bug and bird damage at 150 mph. now i know that this mower has a high top speed,in fact it can make you run behind it without red lining,so i am sure that the finish would withstand any pet or rabbit collisions in the garden.   going on to your observant and helpfull mention of the brake set up,you are totally correct and i thank you for the great imput which you have made available to our club.this will be corrected and whoever fitted them previously was a bodger !!     i will go back to the site of the spiker and get a couple of pictures this week. it could weigh up to half a ton plus at a guess,and it even has a road type trailer to move it around with it.   now the small hand drill is quite versatile,because you can remove the chuck and put in SDS drill bits and also you can use it as a concrete breaker. this was on offer at our local Homebase for £50. just had to have it,you know what us lads are like.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: hortimech
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 9:36am
Sorry wristpin but you have got it wrong, the clutch shoes are the right way round. You would think that the clutch would work better the way suggested, but every auto-certes/marquis/mastif I have seen is setup as the pictures above and I have seen hundreds in my working life.

simar kid, who is the manufacturer of the paint? 


Posted By: wristpin
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 9:53am
Originally posted by hortimech

Sorry wristpin but you have got it wrong, the clutch shoes are the right way round. You would think that the clutch would work better the way suggested, but every auto-certes/marquis/mastif I have seen is setup as the pictures above and I have seen hundreds in my working life.simar kid, who is the manufacturer of the paint?†


Can only say that the info came from a Ransomes service rep! However if you think back to the days when cars had leading and trailing shoes in drum brakes the theory makes sense.


Posted By: hortimech
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 10:07am
Yes, the theory is ok if you are talking brakes but we are talking about a clutch here. I first came across ransomes clutches when I started work as an apprentice lawnmower mechanic back in 1973 and every ransomes clutch I have seen since was fitted as in the pictures above. Every now and again, someone in the workshop would ask if the clutch was fitted right and after checking with other machines, would have to agree either all the machines we had where wrong or they were fitted correctly. 


Posted By: wristpin
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 10:46am
Originally posted by hortimech

Yes, the theory is ok if you are talking brakes but we are talking about a clutch here. I first came across ransomes clutches when I started work as an apprentice lawnmower mechanic back in 1973 and every ransomes clutch I have seen since was fitted as in the pictures above. Every now and again, someone in the workshop would ask if the clutch was fitted right and after checking with other machines, would have to agree either all the machines we had where wrong or they were fitted correctly.†


So be it, but the theory, as explained to me, was that fitting them so that the pivot end leads gives a smoother, more controlled take up. Never tried a live comparison and in a working situation the difference, if any, is probably not detectable!
The plot thickens!!!
Just had a look at the illustrations in some Ransomes parts books and all the pics for older Mastiffs, Matadors, 24s and Sloper and BS Marquises show the shoes "my" way but when it comes to the later Marquis 45,51,and 61 machines "your" way!!!!
Honour satisfied?!


Posted By: Andy Frost
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by hortimech

Sorry wristpin but you have got it wrong, the clutch shoes are the right way round. You would think that the clutch would work better the way suggested, but every auto-certes/marquis/mastif I have seen is setup as the pictures above and I have seen hundreds in my working life.simar kid, who is the manufacturer of the paint?†



Correct ,I can confirm what Hortimech says, I worked for a Ransomes dealer in my youth , we had a County Council contract whereby we had absolutely loads of Ransomes stuff in.

Andy.


Posted By: pauldg
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by wristpin

fitting them so that the pivot end leads gives a smoother, more controlled take up. Never tried a live comparison and in a working situation the difference, if any, is probably not detectable!


I did a comparison of the two ways of fitting the clutch shoes a few years ago...

Leading edge fitting (as shown in simar kid's pic) does give a slightly snatchy uptake if you don't file the edge of the shoe first but it gives a controllable and positive action if this is done.

Trailing edge fitting works lovely in the workshop or on demo BUT leads to huge slippage in a working situation - put any sort of load on though (say cutting some grass) and you are replacing shoes every service, if not before.

My conclusion was to always fit leading edge style and file the edge to prevent the shoe digging in to the drum (unless a manual specifically states otherwise).

Cars that had leading AND trailing shoes in a drum only had them so the brakes worked going forwards and backwards... If you want the most efficient drum brakes in one direction only then TLS (twin leading shoe) is the way to go, just don't expect to stop if you go backwards!


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 12:50pm
hi hortimec. the paint supplier is  T & R WILLIAMSON paint and varnish works ripon. n.yorkshire. all my restorations have been painted by brush with this type of paint. can certainly recomend it,as no doubt in its fool proof application.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 12:56pm
well this thread is getting to a stage now where i am confused. it is not that i will be cutting hardly any grass as it is only a showing item. would i be okay just putting them on either way ?

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: wristpin
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by simar kid

well this thread is getting to a stage now where i am confused. it is not that i will be cutting hardly any grass as it is only a showing item. would i be okay just putting them on either way ?


Clutch shoes - In which case it is of no consequence!
Paint - Your'e obviously very skilled with a paint brush to achieve that level of finish - I hate painting! My Marquis 18 and 20inch and Twenty Four are all mechanically "perfect" but in their original paint - consequently I conserve rather than restore.


Posted By: pauldg
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by simar kid

well this thread is getting to a stage now where i am confused. it is not that i will be cutting hardly any grass as it is only a showing item. would i be okay just putting them on either way ?


I'd say leave them as they are but run a file over the ends of the friction material to remove the sharp edge... That way, they are fitted correctly and if you have a funny five minutes and want to cut some grass it'll work properly.

If you turn them around you run the risk of them rubbing the drum on low engine speeds (even if it's a show thing I expect you want it to work?) and overheating the drum - I'm sure we all know what heat does to paint...


Posted By: Thomas
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 3:24pm
Not that I should add my tuppence worth, but after reading the intense conversation regarding Clutch shoes, ( and mildly panicing about mine )
Simar kids setup is exactly the same as my Ransomes Mg6, I replaced them the way they came off, I am hoping the picture is the correct way...I'm most amused today!


Posted By: pauldg
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 3:42pm
I'm going to keep the clutch conversation going as it's raining so I have nothing better to do (just don't tell swmbo I said that!)

The way they are in the picture is, from my experience, the correct way for a centrifugal clutch. i.e. a twin leading shoe configuration.

As the spindle speed builds up the centrifugal force generated overcomes the force exerted by the retaining springs and the shoes move outwards and contact the drum, taking up the drive. As the load is increased the torque reaction created by the position of the shoe pivots increases the force with which the shoes press against the inside of the drum thereby creating a mechanical lock between the two shafts and transmitting drive with little or no clutch slip.

If, on the other hand, you install the shoes in a trailing configuration (opposite to the pic) then the operation takes place in the same way up to the point a load is applied. When a load is present in this case, the torque reaction overcomes the centrifugal force and pushes the shoes AWAY from the drum, which leaves no connection between the two shafts and allows slippage.

The action of these clutches is such that the centrifugal force's only purpose is to get the shoes to the drum, after this point torque reaction takes over and keeps drive applied.

As brakes have been mentioned before - in a leading/trailing drum brake, it's only the leading shoe that actually gives any braking force at all due to the same principal detailed above - AL-KO and others use this effect in their trailer/caravan axles to enable automatic brake release while reversing.


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 4:39pm
Okay guys i have had a really good look at our heated debate and decided to photograph the pads in situ. the shoes themselfs look new,lots of depth and the rivets are shinney deep down. i have lightly rubbed the leading edge for photo purposes,and as you will see the main pivot point has the lead on and the trailing edge is totaly at 90 DEG to shoe mounting.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: wristpin
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 5:08pm
Am I completely loosing it or have you swapped the shoes round from the pic that you posted yesterday (showing the new muffler and a bit of cutting cylinder and the one that you've posted today?!!! The one posted today is how I was told they should be but the majority of fettlers/users say that it is incorrect. I'm interested in the comment that "my way" leads to a high rate of lining wear but I have never seen warn out linings even on a Mastiff let alone a Marguis - loose,yes, cracked yes, but never worn out - may be I have led a sheltered life!


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 5:37pm
hi wristpin. i did change the shoes over earlier when i read your post on the forum. i guess the way they are shaped gives us all the answers. i like the crack on here it makes me laugh at times.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: pauldg
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 6:29pm
I wouldn't fit them the way they are now. But then, I've not been trained by a sales rep. so what do I know?Tongue

The existing chamfered edge doesn't really mean anything - 'almost' every new set of shoes I've had have been square both ends, but I have seen them supplied chamfered on the leading edge, the trailing edge and once one of each in the same box...

They could have been filed by a previous owner or if they are new, picked up at random by the friction lining assembly worker and riveted on how they fell.

At the end of the day, it's your machine and your choice how you want to do it. I'm not being stroppy with this reply, it's just how I do things.


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 6:32pm
thanks for that.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: hortimech
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 6:35pm
Worn clutches on marquis mowers are not common but I have come across the odd one or two, more common is clutch wear on mastifs, they tend not to tick over correctly, a similar problem (and result) occurs on motor triples.

I can only suggest that you turn the clutch shoes round to the way they were.


Posted By: hortimech
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 7:25pm
If you want the correct carb, there is another ones of these on fleabay,  Item number: 300703279883, never seen one fitted with a clinton, now I seen two!




Posted By: wristpin
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by hortimech

Worn clutches on marquis mowers are not common but I have come across the odd one or two, more common is clutch wear on mastifs, they tend not to tick over correctly, a similar problem (and result) occurs on motor triples.I can only suggest that you turn the clutch shoes round to the way they were.


Talking of Mastiffs I used to find that if one had clutch drag (giving crunchy gear selection!) the culprit was usually the big "bronze" bush that the drum free wheeled on. Although not obviously worn to the eye it allowed the drum to drop a fraction and to drag on the shoes - a new one solved the problem. The discarded ones with two notches filed into them made nice supports when pressing out the cutting cylinder bearings from something else - belt driven Webb 24s I think!


Posted By: wristpin
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 10:29am
Centrifugal clutch shoes.
Have just spoken to Ransomes Jacobsen technical department and they say pivoted (fixed) end leading.
------ and an hour or so later in the midst of a post retirement wet day paperwork sort out I have found an operator's instruction book for "Marquis" Motor Mower 18" Mk2 and 20" Mk3.
On page 3 under the heading "Clutches" it says.........
"When replacing the shoes care must be taken to see that the hinged ends point towards the direction of running"

I rest my case!!!!!!!!!



Posted By: pauldg
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 1:29pm
As I said...

Originally posted by pauldg

My conclusion was to always fit leading edge style and file the edge to prevent the shoe digging in to the drum (unless a manual specifically states otherwise).


Anything following that was a statement on general operating principals.

The only reason I can think for trailing shoe to be specified is to reduce the possibility of blade damage, say if a stone got caught between the reel and the base blade - in this case the clutch would slip and allow the reel to stop. I have seen some where this happened and bent both the reel and bottom blade.


Posted By: wristpin
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 3:37pm
Been trying to upload scan of the page in the manual but it would seem to be too big a file for a direct upload so tried Photobucket and eventually got it to ackle but the link code that it produces does not seem to work - any ideas?

Think that I have cracked it!


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:21pm
this manual would be of great interest if a copy was available,,,hint hint. i hope that we can move on now and get back to a few resto photographs.engine now ready for grafics but i still have the cutting blades to sort out.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by hortimech

If you want the correct carb, there is another ones of these on fleabay,  Item number: 300703279883, never seen one fitted with a clinton, now I seen two!


thanks for that ,but they want me to collect,and its two far anyway. i have a clinton carb here with a filter so i will probably use that.it is off a 400 series so at least it will be usa spec not uk spec.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: steve d
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 8:25pm
wow john another superb looking job   was that pic not in the manual i originally sent you i c ant remember now?  still the old clinton looks really good mate  i ve found one that i must do up that my dad scrapped off a machine years ago it was one i managed to salvage before my mum got rid of all the other bits ,but i do have a cunning plan for it , the ransomes w ont be sneaking on the trailer to will it john for the long trip down to sussex.
I only wish my dad would have been here to see  all these machines that he repaired and sold  for all thoughs years  i know he would have love to have met you and see these cracking restorations of yours
steve


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colwood register


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 8:32pm
steve. thanks for the comment but i am hoping to get the goodwood in the peugeot partner van.will be a squeeze but i am hoping that without the trailer she will do more MPG. does anyone know what weight this machine is as i am limited to 800 KGS ?

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: steve d
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 8:38pm
i know kim  got his in the back of his transit connect last year  and he had trailer to,just looked up i know its in lbs but goes 300lbs with standard equipment so there you go mate from the depths of the colwood register  he he

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colwood register


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 03 May 2012 at 6:31pm

 small update on mower. engine now remounted and what a going on trying to get everything coupled.did take and used all the advise given,but still caused a few bluish expleatives,i can say. next job on the cards is to get the cyclinder rubbed down then the tentioning prosess to get the two chains adjusted.



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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 06 May 2012 at 4:25pm
 Today after waiting for the cyclinder to dry,which has taken 3 days have now been able to add the cyclinder and bottom blade back into the bodywork. the front rollers have been varnished with 4 coats of clear and have highlighted the grain which i hoped that it would and what a finish. D o need to get hold of one of the chain adjuster tools,not sure from where,but maybe i could borrow one or even hire one for a half day.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: Hillsider
Date Posted: 06 May 2012 at 5:44pm
Hi,
Re the chain adjuster tool I made one from a length of 25 X 6 mild steel flat bar using two roll pins as the pins to release the clutch nut. I measured the pitch of the holes from the clutch nut while it was dismantled. You may need to grind a scallop of metal away from the side of the bar to clear the clutch springs after assembly, also I put a small set in the handle to clear the chains.
Mine has worked well for several years now, if you need some dimensions I could post them here for you.
Ray


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 06 May 2012 at 5:58pm
 hi ray thanks for the offer and info. what i think i will do is ask on here if anyone has one and that they are definatley going to ardingly,and then ask them i week before show to post it here and i will return at the show plus postage and a couple of ardinleys finest ales

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: wristpin
Date Posted: 06 May 2012 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by simar kid

†small update on mower. engine now remounted and what a going on trying to get everything coupled.did take and used all the advise given,but still caused a few bluish expleatives,i can say. next job on the cards is to get the cyclinder rubbed down then the tentioning prosess to get the two chains adjusted.[IMG]http://www.tractorbox.co.uk/forum/uploads/20120503_183033_03052012965.jpg" height="600" width="800" />



Now you know why Hortimec told you about sliding the clutch drum back! Also I would always put the spigot bearing back into the engine side of the clutch rather than on the drum shaft. A slight chamfer ground onto the end of the shaft helps enter it into the bearing as well. When it comes to tensioning the chains I would pull the plate clutch right up and forward to get both chains tight and then just pinch up the clamping collar to hold it in position. You can then just tap it town to get the required slack in the cylinder chain (having set the cylinder first!). The landroll chain will then usually look after itself - it will run quite happily with quite a lot of slack in it.Then finally tighten it and check that it hasn't moved! If you are unlucky enough to have a bit of run out in the cylinder shaft or distortion of the sprocket you will end up with the tight/slack scenario and adjustment will have to be a compromise.
Your superb finish - do you use the paint as it comes or do you thin the final coat?


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 06 May 2012 at 8:24pm
 hi wristpin. thanks for the step by step guide to retentioning.have taken it all onboard. now this fantastic paint is what i would call fool proof.when it comes in the tin you can brush it on neat and it must be at the perfect viscosity as rarely you get any runs. BUT i am very pleased that you have made a comment on the thinning of it and i do actually dip my brush in turps when i apply last coat. simar kids secret is now no more,but we all give advise for free so heres my tip. i hope that you do try this paint and have success with it.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 09 May 2012 at 9:34pm
 Panic has reared its head last night and today over my lunch break i have been running around like a headless chicken. why you say ? well it has come to my knowledge that this project is entered for ardingly. i had better get the resto up a few gears as the grass box looks like a seive and have been looking for a roller to shape the new panel for the bottom of box. also the grafics need to be organised etc so the challenge is on to get everything in order. mind i do tend to get a panic on when my stride is altered. other than this the resto is progressing.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: charliesfergy
Date Posted: 09 May 2012 at 9:38pm
John, i will find a pic of my roller made from 3 pieces of 6ft scaffold pole with bearings in the ends and a sliding mechanism made from two pieces of m12 threaded rod as the down pressure bit


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 09 May 2012 at 9:40pm
 thanks will.what i need is a local Bus Garage,they would have one.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 10 May 2012 at 8:14pm
saturday brought some entertainment after my wife discovered that i was using her suade brush to clean up the carb.but what a good job it made,and the beauty of using this meant that it did not leave any scratches to the naked eyeon the alloy casing.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 10 May 2012 at 8:18pm


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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: Thomas
Date Posted: 10 May 2012 at 9:06pm
Another cracking job Thumbs%20Up, how do you clean up the carbs so well?
Tom


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 11 May 2012 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by Thomas

Another cracking job Thumbs%20Up, how do you clean up the carbs so well?
Tom
  hello thomas. if you look in general discussions i put a light hearted topic on how you do it. it is called Sonic Cleaner

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 16 May 2012 at 9:05pm
in my search for a petrol tank top,i put an add on a us small engine site.a man sent me an e mail and said he had several and told me he will send me one F.O.C. WOW ! now that is a great brotherhood of like minded enthousiasts. Grass box now under repair but still looking for a straight fuel tap similar to an old motor bike type

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 18 May 2012 at 8:48pm
have had a word with Titch about decals for the mower,and i believe that shortly things should be back up to speed as the show of all shows is getting nearer.  petrol tank tap is still not solved. the main problem is that between the tank out let and the flywheel cover i only have 20 mm of space which means the average say villiers tap is to long to get a full turn into tank base. does anyone have any recomendations on what i should be looking for ?

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 19 May 2012 at 12:46pm
Found the elusive tap that fits. this little brass tap has been removed from an ATCO mower tank. looks well in keeping with 1963. had a difficult time fitting as turning tolerance was one human hair. but i am getting there. this projects motto is onward and upward.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: daviddale
Date Posted: 19 May 2012 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by pauldg



Originally posted by simar kid

well this thread is getting to a stage now where i am confused. it is not that i will be cutting hardly any grass as it is only a showing item. would i be okay just putting them on either way ?
I'd say leave them as they are but run a file over the ends of the friction material to remove the sharp edge... That way, they are fitted correctly and if you have a funny five minutes and want to cut some grass it'll work properly.If you turn them around you run the risk of them rubbing the drum on low engine speeds (even if it's a show thing I expect you want it to work?) and overheating the drum - I'm sure we all know what heat does to paint...

I think you'll find that these shoes could be made of asbestos!!!! David.could

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Regards, David.


Posted By: pmackellow
Date Posted: 19 May 2012 at 1:40pm
Looking good John, nearly there !!   

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Collector of Tarpen, Wheelhorse, International Cub Cadet, Landmaster, Cooper Stewart, Farmfitters, Jobber, Jalo, Ro-lo, Sisis and literature


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 22 May 2012 at 8:52pm
quick update. i have recieved the petrol tank cap from ohio today from a very generous parts supp;ier called gary stewart. he runs a company called scott supply inc. 358 5th st.nw.new philadelphia ohio 44663-1633. they stock a lot of parts for all american engines so they are worth a try if you are strugling for those hard to find parts. this chap sent it foc plus postage .a real star guy !!

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: Thomas
Date Posted: 22 May 2012 at 10:08pm
Wouldn't the world be a better place with more of that ! Happy days.


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2012 at 9:07pm
Glad to say that i am back on track with this long standing resto.still having problems with the collector box rebuild,but with having the chance to meet Titch in the flesh,and fully clothed at the newby hall rally he produced these graphics so they have been fitted this evening and what a transformation  Tongue Clap he never fails to come up trumps. many thanks that man.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: series1gem
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2012 at 9:12pm
WOW!

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If it isnt orange it isnt a rotavator


Posted By: hortimech
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2012 at 9:37pm
What a great job, but just a couple of minor touches required to make it absolutely perfect, the big screw that holds the chainguard on should be matt black as should the airfilter cover. Otherwise, absolutely perfect, give yourself a big pat on the back. 


Posted By: TITCH
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2012 at 9:43pm
Hey John,
 
Good to see them fitted to your, yet again, stunning transformation..to old machinery again!!
 
I  was really really pleased to have met you at the weekend too!!!
 
Top Banana!!
 
Titch


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Restorations Final Touch!


Posted By: pmackellow
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2012 at 9:45pm
Another cracking resto from the Simar Kid !

Looking forward to seeing that at Ardingly, well done that man !!

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Collector of Tarpen, Wheelhorse, International Cub Cadet, Landmaster, Cooper Stewart, Farmfitters, Jobber, Jalo, Ro-lo, Sisis and literature


Posted By: The Showman
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2012 at 9:54pm
thats the wow factor john,looks great, lets see some of hortimech's perfect restorations !! 

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No Fools....Only Horses. Wheelhorse of course


Posted By: steve d
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2012 at 10:07pm
i c ant wait to see the old girl john what could be added to the great comments already added so glad we were right about the clinton engine being fitted i think it looks superb and with titch s superb decals its the icing on the cake mate very well done johnClap

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colwood register


Posted By: The Showman
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2012 at 10:10pm
Just noticed that john, is that one of my clinton engine's  I'm most amused today!

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No Fools....Only Horses. Wheelhorse of course


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2012 at 10:13pm
thanks all for the encouraging words. i still have not got the chains tentioned up yet,but hoping to get steved to adjust them on the show field.will also paint that retaining screw black but i quite like the top of carb green.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2012 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by The Showman

Just noticed that john, is that one of my clinton engine's  Im%20most%20amused%20today!
no ,this is original to mower and i will pm you over the others say tommorow eve.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2012 at 8:32pm

Good news,a good secondhand collector has be found . after a long search i have one on its way.



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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 7:54pm
back on track soon with this lingering project.i have been looking at a mower without a grass collector for so long now and its not a pretty sight.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: Stuart.
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 8:30pm
I have one of those 4 stroke Clinton "Gem" alluminium engines allthough mine is in its original red paintwork and has the Clinton carburettor fitted.I must admit i do like these Clinton engines.There dont seem to be that many here in the UK. 


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 8:46pm
hi stuart. at one point in the early sixtys they where ten a penny,but the english mechanics never really got to grips with the carb set up and they generally replaced them as they thought that they were US-----Nice PUN but maybe as you are aware there where three processes to setting them up for all around engine speed and max torque in a smooth power range. but i have two of these engines and after getting in contact with the small engine club in states they sent me a manual and they now work well.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: Stuart.
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2012 at 10:20pm

I have a 2 stroke two and a quarter hp Clinton "Panther" engine too thats fitted on a 3 wheel mower made by "Farm-Fitters of Gerards Cross".I remember my Grandad using this small and noisy mower in the 1970,s / early 80,s.The blade is only approx 10" wide.I have the sales brochure for this mower too and im sure you can use different "attachments" on it ??.I have never seen another one of these mowers.I,ll post a picture of it at the weekend as,like my BMB Hoemate,it too is buried in the back of a shipping container. 



Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2012 at 8:00pm
grass box has been sourced and i have had confirmation from HD TRUST that he has one which will make the long standing project complete. well done Andrew. Clap

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: pmackellow
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2012 at 9:06pm
Thats a result John !!


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Collector of Tarpen, Wheelhorse, International Cub Cadet, Landmaster, Cooper Stewart, Farmfitters, Jobber, Jalo, Ro-lo, Sisis and literature


Posted By: Ancient Briton
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:54pm
Hello, I have joined today so may get this in the wrong place, a bit like Alice in Blunderland. I have a question relating to the measurements on the Marquis clutch tool. The distance between the pins is stated as 30mm, I presume this is measured actually between them at the lower, thickest point. The reason I ask is because I was told all parallel measurements such as these are taken centre to centre but in this case it looks as though that would put them too close together. I have found a bloke who will make the tool for me but I want to get it right first time if possible as he is doing it as a favour and I don't want to ask him to re-do it.  Thanks for any advice. Dave.


Posted By: enginear
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by Ancient Briton

Hello, I have joined today so may get this in the wrong place, a bit like Alice in Blunderland. I have a question relating to the measurements on the Marquis clutch tool. The distance between the pins is stated as 30mm, I presume this is measured actually between them at the lower, thickest point. The reason I ask is because I was told all parallel measurements such as these are taken centre to centre but in this case it looks as though that would put them too close together. I have found a bloke who will make the tool for me but I want to get it right first time if possible as he is doing it as a favour and I don't want to ask him to re-do it.† Thanks for any advice. Dave.
When taking a measurement it won't make any difference if the pin is thick or thin the measurement is centre to centre or should be funny enough i picked up two today but one is missing a pin i will see if it's the one you want apart from postage you can have it.


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simple


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 6:57pm
hi dave.these measurements are not mine ,but why not take mower to the man and let him measure it.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: simar kid
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 6:59pm
great thanks for offer are you going to newark at the end of this week ?i will be there.

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Not sure whats wrong. i think we will let it develop


Posted By: Ancient Briton
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 3:00pm
Hello, Ancient Briton here again with a message for Enginear. If you have a spare clutch tool I should be very grateful for it but I would prefer to pay for it as well as the postal charges, I have bought a Marquis that needs a lot of work and the proper equipment makes life a lot easier. I worked for a landscaping firm in the late 1960s and we ran about fourteen Ransomes mowers, 16, 20 and 24 inch cylinders, I used to be in the workshop in the winter overhauling them. They were a treat to use and a pleasure to work on, especially the Matadors with that superb J.A.P 4/3 engine, I sold the two I owned when my back injury started to really bother me, I greatly regret it now. Regards. Dave.


Posted By: enginear
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2012 at 10:22pm
I have i think the one you want at 30mm but the other one that i have is slightly wider, one pin missing but the pin diameter is bigger i have vague memories that this is also for a ransome's do not know which of you above want these and maybe wristpin can remember two different size tool's.

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simple


Posted By: wristpin
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2012 at 10:47am
Originally posted by enginear

I have i think the one you want at 30mm but the other one that i have is slightly wider, one pin missing but the pin diameter is bigger i have vague memories that this is also for a Ransome's do not know which of you above want these and maybe Wristpin can remember two different size tool's.


As far as I know there was only ever one size for the Marquis, Ransomes part number LCG1491, still listed at 23.77+vat. However there was a similar tool for the Matador with wider spaced pins.
The attached pic is of a genuine Ransomes tool and was easy to find as I'm in mid-overhaul of an 18" Marquis!! My Matador one is home made and part of an "adjustable" tool with a moveable peg for doing the clutch and also holding sprockets etc.


Posted By: enginear
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2012 at 4:28pm
That's the one i have but the other one is the same idea but bigger diam at the small end and bigger diam at bottom end and wider apart.

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simple


Posted By: Ancient Briton
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 2:54pm
Hello Enginear, Ancient Briton again, the tool in the photograph is the one I require, if you are willing to have it prized loose from your grip will you please email me so I can have your address in order to mail funds to you. The Matador tool was certainly a lot larger with heavier pins, I believe those superb machines weighed nearly two hundredweight so needed a fairly hefty clutch assembly.  My email is d.wheeler84@yahoo.co.uk       Regards and thank's.



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